G grandparents Patrick Moore & Mary Dempsey

I am trying to find information on my Great grandparents Patrick Moore (born Ireland 1845) and Mary Moore (nee Dempsey born Ireland 1850). They were born in Ireland Dublin, Curragh Co' Kildare, Maynooth Co' Kildare. They settled in Wigan Ince, Newtown, Soho, Pemberton.

On the 1901 Census Patrick was 53 so would have been born around 1855 and Mary was 46 so would have been born around 1901. They had 6 children (5 alive the first James died). They were, Elizabeth Moore, Patrick Moore, James Moore, Thomas Moore, Mary Moore, James Moore.

Patrick Moore (child) was my grandfather and was born on the 6 Jan 1878 at Pickup St Ince. He married Emily Arnold and they had two children Patrick and Ellen (Nell/Nellie).

I know my grandfathers brother Thomas Moore, was the father of Thomas/Tucker Moore (Jack Dempsey).

On the 1881 Census Patrick and Mary were living at Rupert St Ince and had three Irish lodgers living with them. Their names were, Christopher Tyerell, Ellen Tyerell, Anastasia Tyerell.

I am just really trying to find out about my great grandparents, when and where in Ireland they were born and what date did they came to England, did they come as a married couple?

I have photographs form my mother of (Thomas Moore and his wife on their wedding day and of Tucker Moore) my mother Ellen (Nell, Nellie and her brother Patrick died in 1994/1996). Whilst I still have cousins in Ince /Hindley they know very little about that side of the family. If anyone could help it would be most helpful.

Thanking you in advance

They were married 13 February 1876 at St. Patricks Catholic Church Scholes
May have had 8 children apart from the ones you mentioned there was a John born 1881 and may have been a Henry born 1909 but cant be to sure of him at this stage Elizabeth was the first born
Correction Henry cant have been their child as Mary died 1905 in Soho St.
so henry is a mystery but his mothers maiden name give at birth was Dempsey??

Hi Jamb,

Thanks, I know they were married in 1876, but thought it was at Wigan register office. Yes, she did die in 1905 aged 52. He died in Bolton (I think it must have been a pit accident) in 1902 aged 57.

He had come to Wigan from Ireland (Dublin, Meath, Maynooth, Co' Kildare, Curggh are all places I was told as a child), aged 25 in 1821 and lodged in Rupert St, Wigan.

Her/Mary's maiden name was Dempsey. They had 6 children 5 survived. They were Elizabeth, PARTICK (my grandfather), John (died in my earlier mail I may have refereed to him as James), Thomas (Tucker Moore/Jack Demseys father), Mary and James.

Are you part of the same family or just someone who likes genealogy?

I wished I had asked my mother more when she was alive. I know she was still in touch, with both the Moores and Dempeys.

I am still in touch with my cousins (Moore), but they know little about that side of the family. I really want to find out where in Ireland they were from and who their parents were.

Thank you for all your help, very much appreciated.

Helen

I gave misleading information in my last mail. Patrick was still alive in 1911 and was lodging with his son Thomas he is down as a widower on the 1911 census. James is also with him. I cant find his death and have searched everywhere. I know he was dead in 1919 as I have a copy of my grandmothers marriage cert. and it states father deceased.

Name: Patrick Moore
Age in 1911: 65
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Wigan, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Wigan Street Address: 24 Frith St Wallgate Wigan
Marital status: Widowed Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Moore 27
Eliza Moore 19
Mary Moore 10/12
Patrick Moore 65
James Moore 20

Moore Patrick 60 yrs 24 Frith St 14-Feb 1912 I 378 RC

This Patrick is is his father Moore Patrick 50 yrs Wigan Union Workhouse 16-Apr 1874

Patrick Moore
1824–1874
BIRTH 1824 • Laohis/Castlecomer, Kilkenny

DEATH 14 APR 1874 • Union Workhouse Wigan Lancashire

I am going to the History Shop in Wigan later this week I will have a look at their marriage record for the name of their fathers
They had 2 children by the name of James 1 born 1879 died 1879 and 1 born 1890 he married Emma Perkins 1919 Thomas married Eliza Perkins 1910 sister of Emma

Hi Winne and JAMB,

Thank you for your help. I have Patricks father and mother details they are Patrick Moore and Elizabeth Bergan O' Beirgin. Looks like he was baptised in Castle Comer, Co' Kilkenny, Skehena. I have sent for copies of their marriage cert and both Patricks and Marys death certs. So hoping that will give me some leads.

All very sad they were both buried in common/paupers graves in Wigan cemetery. She died in 1905 and he in 1912.

I think Patricks father did indeed die in the Union workhouse in Wigan. One of my cousins who still lives in Wigan said if you find any money let me know. All that I have found to date is grinding poverty, it is so sad what they had to go through.

I am getting addicted to this genealogy now. I think my grandmother Emily's family should be easier as I know more about them. I was only 6 mths old when my Grandad Patrick Moore died in 1957, but was 28 when my grandmother Emily Moore died.

I don't live in Wigan/Up holland any longer, but might need to take a trip up north to go into the Wigan Museum.

You have both been very kind in helping me with my search. Thank you very much.

Very best regards,
Helen

You seem to know who his parents were but seem to be confused as to were they came from Dublin, Kildare , Kilkenny???
were did you get the info of his parents names from ??

Hi JAMB,

I think I got the initial information (names of parents) off my grandfathers birth cert, plus I knew who he had married.

I also joined a find my past. I was always told as a child that they were from Dublin, Kildare and Maynooth. Which wasn't correct. I have both grandparents birth certs. and wedding certs. I also know their dates of death and where they are buried (which is Gidlow Cemetery). I worked back from there. Went on to the following sites.
www.FreeBMD.org.uk
www.ukbmdcertificationordering.co.uk
www.GRO.gov.uk
Heritage services Wigan
www.lancashirebdm.org.uk
Lancashire Parish Clarks
www.lan-opc.org.uk
The woman in the heritage services was very helpful. I also appreciate the help that both you and Winni provided.

I was hoping when I joined this site that someone from the Dempsey side of the family might get in touch or have already done some research. I think I told you that my grandfathers brother Thomas was Tucker Moore (the wrestler Jack Dempsey's) father.

I haven't found anything out about Mary Moore (nee Dempsey). My grandfathers mother. She was born in Ireland in 1850, married in Wigan 13 Feb 1876 and died in Wigan in 1905. But I cant trace where she came from in Ireland. I have sent for the death and marriage cert. so hopefully that should have something on it.

You can never beat local knowledge so it is always very helpful and I appreciate the input you provided.

I have found it most interesting. I still have 3 other grandparents to find I think most of those were English one may have been Scottish.

Thanks Helen

Hi Helen
I still dont understand how you know the names of Patricks (born abt 1845) parents
I worked at the same place as Tucker Moore and used to give him a lift to work as we lived quite close to each other
when you say you still have 3 to grandparents to find I assume you mean great grandparents? I may be able to get access to some Scottish records?

Helen
Just been to History Shop to check the church record of the marriage of Patrick Moore and Mary Dempsey 13 February 1876
Both gave the Address of Nicolas Nook (this was in Scholes) Patrick fathers name was Patrick ( as you said ) and Marys fathers name was John, Catholic church records dont give the occupations nor do they say if the parent is living or deceased the witnesses were Patrick Foy of Lime St. and Catherine (unable to read surname) of Standishgate
using a birth date of 1845 for Patrick and 1850 for Mary plus or minus 5 years I checked the Irish catholic records and there is at least 13 possible births for Patrick and at least 50 for Mary , this assumes they were born catholic and bear in mind not all registers will be on line
I did find the birth record of a Patrick whos parents were Patrick and Eliza Bergan born 19 March 1847 godparents Thomas Moore and Catherine Phelan.
The lady you have been in contact with at the History Shop is Julie she is very helpful

Hi JAMB
Thank you tons of information. Patricks parents are as you correctly state Patrick and Eliza Bergan born 19 March 1847 godparents Thomas Moore and Catherine Phelan. As far as I know they were born catholic.

Yes, it was Julie in the history shop. At some point will have to take a trip to Wigan/Up Holland (fathers side) to find out more.

I really appreciate your help.

Many thanks
Helen

Hi Helen
Interesting that you gave Tucker Moore a lift to work. Small world.
No I mean grand parents, my mothers mother (think there is a Scottish connection there) and my fathers parents. You may well know my mother Ellen (Nell/Nellie) and her brother Patrick? The Nolan's is also another branch of the family.

it looks like you have the Moore s covered? if not let me know in particular what you are missing and I will take a look as I may be able to get access to records here in Wigan, also if you would like me to take a look at the Bannister s or the Arnolds let me know
I assume you know your mother also had a sister that died as a child born 1920 name of Mary?

Thanks, I should probably give you my person email as. I am probably giving too much information out on an open forum. Please let me know if you would be happy for me to do that.

Yes, I know my grandmother had, had another child a girl, but was never sure if she was actually born alive or was still born. I don't think she lived long.
Many thanks
Helen

Hi Helen
I dont mind if you let me have your e-mail , and if you prefer not to put it onto this forum I suggest you let Julie have it and give her permission to share it with me and I will call in to see her next week
Brian

Hi Brian, You are so kind. I think I will go with your suggestion and give to to Julie and give her permission to share it. Have a lovely weekend. Many thanks, Helen